https://www.patreon.com/posts/finale-six-of-to-98099477
So in all this Filial talk, the real question that I keep bringing up may be…. Why bother discussing it? We can run ourselves mentally and emotionally ragged trying to weigh the pros and cons… and that’s before the spiritual and physical tolls hit us, probably, in large part, no matter what we decide to do.
And at the beginning, middle, and end of the day, the truth is, (as I keep saying) there’s no right answer. It’s a personal decision. Oftentimes “decision” is an exaggerated term for what’s happening. There are infinite differing factors for each of us. Surely, with the people in question, no one can say there’s a correct option or a sense of having full freedom of choice.
Plus, with our over analytical and often obsessive thinktanks, it’s hard to believe that all the philosophical debates will lead any one of us big thinkers or feelers to rest confidently on our laurels and say “Yep, that’s the perspective I choose, everything else is resolved, no need to have internal events about this anymore.”
So… why bother?
Why the fuck did I make us all take this three and a half hour tour?
Well, spoilers, but at the end of this episode I think we come down to the six pillars of the decision and unraveling of the cognitions that lie below.
But before that, of course, we’re doing this to relay some otherwise difficult to word thinking that might be taking place for those in the middle of this situation right now. The unconscious weights we carry can become less influential by being spoken to.
But also, to point out the different parts inside of us that might be battling over the decision, arguing about our already-established filial engagement, or pre-emptively worrying about it happening one day. Managers and Exiles? Better believe they’re fist fighting about this one. And then toss in the Distractors to numb the seemingly endless torture those discrepant views are creating.
Plus, it’s worthwhile to get the elder Fuckers thinking about how THEY’RE going to handle Filial Obligation scenarios, assuming y’all would like to spread the least amount of str-angst possible to your children. How are YOU going to handle getting older? What relationship rehab might be necessary, if you’re hoping to lean on your youngins? And how might need identification and request-making be skills that you need to bolster in order to not drive them to the brink of entrapment and suicidality?
AND.
There’s one more reason to have this talk (again).
Because… well, it’s never too soon to examine your relationship with Filial assistance, in my book.
Not only are predictable Filial Mortality events inevitable for most of us (on both the giving and receiving ends), but, long before our parents are strongly age-ed, isn’t Filial Obligation a reality of life throughout ours?
Haven’t we been helping our fams in one way or another, truly, for decades? What with the reverse parenting, the emotional regulation, the ego support and unconditional love we started providing as children… all the way up to god knows what in our teen and adult years. It’s sortof been a lifetime of Filial Obligation, huh?
No wonder we have mixed feelings, long before the threat is even upon us.
I think that deserves to be spoken to.
As do alllll the narratives we’ve collected throughout, about the ongoing situation. Is it the right thing to do, to turn the other cheek and continue ponying up to family mental illness? Or is it less-than-required and perhaps a bit “foolish”? Have we always been gettin played like a fiddle? Are we really going to do this until we’re (assumedly) the last kin member standing?
These discrepant views on family responsibility might explain a lot of our internal conflicts, no matter our respective ages. If you also frequently “give them one last chance,” only to beat the shit out of yourself for your un-wisdom immediately after executing that helping hand,.. And then extrapolate that experience to the shitfuckery you can expect during their severe health concerns and dealings with mortality… well, we’re in the same boat.
For a lot of CPTSDrs, Family Obligation has been a lifelong role. Not one that we’re just priming ourselves for as we age.
SO.
It’s kindof a rich topic, regardless of your proximity to family caregiving in this particular moment, isn’t it?
And with those rationales in mind… well…
Let’s have one more discussion of these Filial fors-and-againsts.
Because. If you’re tracking this the way I have been, you might agree that there’s not ONE perspective that puts this moral discourse to bed. And a lot of what we’ve discussed has been tainted with the stench of abuse normalization. But, actually, you might also feel that there are connective gems scattered amongst the shit.
And I have to say… you might also find that this last bit of research I’m going to present, in tandem with what we can synthesize from our 6 previously discussed philosophies, settles the entire score. Giving us guidance in marching our way through this minefield.
So, today, we’re going to be busy.
First, we’ll go through and pick up breadcrumbs that were left behind in our last three episodes. Nuggets and counterpoints from both the East and West views that I left for this moment.
Then we’ll dive into a little discussion on that “filial caregiving is for YOUR development” point. I hope that gave you, also, several days and nights of pondering. We’ll answer: what are the real abuse pitfalls and real mental benefits of that unearthly perspective?
And finally, I’m going to give you two research study-based facts on the whole Filial Obligation matter that might ACTUALLY end this debate. Tying a big beautiful bow on this otherwise unresolvable set of perspectives by cutting to the psychological core of the issue. And… sortof… coming to a generalized conclusion that might make a done-deal out of this otherwise unresolvable discourse.
If Eastern views are so Filially sunny… does that mean there’s less strain involved in less western cultures? And what actually DOES predict positive, dedicated, engagement with filial obligation?
From the research, I’ll tell you.
Lots to do today in this wrapup episode, revisiting the Morality of Filial Duty.
How about we just get started.
EASTERN NUGS
First up, we’re going back to episode one, in which we talked about the Eastern views on caring for our parents.
The rundown I gave you was pretty, uh, cut and dry upsetting? Especially, for me, several of the 5 tenants of being a Filial child.
Those five standards were: support your parents, honor and obey their every word, procreate, don’t dishonor the family name, and mourn them when they’re gone.
And for those parental demands? I have many scoffs. But I also have two points to clarify that might make you think a little differently about these otherwise fucked-up-sounding expectations. Maybe there ARE some items to recontextualize and positively review from the East.
Maybe not.
Let’s find out, starting with:
Tenant #2: HOLDING THEM TO SOME STANDARD
“Honor, obey, and revere your parents.” They say. “Follow their every word.”
Well, here’s the good news about that blind obedience… it’s actually not so blind.
Li says:
Of these (five tenants), many Westerners probably have more difficulty with the second: honoring, revering, and obeying one’s parents.
Many people are under the impression that it means a son’s absolute obedience, but this notion may have been exaggerated.
According to the Classic of Filial Piety, Confucius explicitly said: “[W]hen [the father] is not right, the son cannot not contend with the father…. Hence, if the son follows the father without contending with him when the father is not right, how can this be filial?”
(Oh my god, there is some hope. We AREN’T meant to naively follow everything they say and do. We ARE intended to speak up when they behave in ways that, let’s say, “ain’t right.”
SO, all of this “obey me because I am your father. I know best because I am your mother” jargon is NOT supported in the Confucian philosophy that otherwise strongly supports parental rights and filial obligations.
And we might even say that contentious parent-child relationships with differing belief systems is acknowledged as a part of the family experience…. With US being the pious individuals for our ‘backsass’ as long as that ‘backsass’ is made in the effort to benefit our parents.
Pause the presses, we just got some unexpected news, huh?
Li says:)
On the spiritual side, filial piety consists, during the lifetime of our parents, in conforming ourselves to their wishes, and giving them not only physical care and nourishment, but also nourishing their wills;
while should they fall into error, it consists in reproving them and leading them back to what is right.
(So, it’s actually the child’s job to lead the parent as much as the parent leads the child. Morally, we’re obligated to attempt to help them when we feel that they aren’t in line with the highest beliefs of our shared culture.
Somehow… that makes me feel better. Especially since my family discourse is largely the accusation of trying to rock all boats through not agreeing with their viewpoints. Something that, I presume, will not improve as my mother roots even further into her already established perspectives and queendom of the world.
So. Honoring our parents is important, but we do everyone a disservice (including them, on a spiritual level) if we allow falsehoods and outdated perspectives to be the rules that we adhere to. Overriding our own best insights is not supported by the Confucian view of Filial Piety.
However, point number three, “give me grandbabies or you don’t love me,” might be.
On the third tenant, Li says:)
Third expectation
Among these five types of ancient filial behavior, the one that appears most incomprehensible to many Westerners is the third. What does producing heirs have to do with filial piety?
People who think along this line, however, have over- looked the religious dimension of Confucianism.
It should be noted that in Confucianism there is no Heaven to ensure an eternal life as is the case in Christianity.
The Confucians have to look elsewhere for the meaning of life, and to satisfy the almost universal human desire for immortality. The place to find it, for the Confucians, is human-relatedness, which has many dimensions. One primary dimension involves continuing the family line. Through reproduction, one can pass along not only one’s family name but also one’s blood, and hence life, to later generations.
(Okay, so this reproduction talk makes more sense from that viewpoint. I’ll give them that.
Whereas we’re used to talk of bearded daddy cloudman and the sparkling afterlife, making babies is their version of comforting themselves about death. Got it.
Do I agree that it’s your fate to multiply, because you were born and owe it to your bloodline as a method of immortalization? Hahaha, no, I’ve spoken positively about my bloodline dying out since I was in high school.
But I see the connection they’re making. Perpetuate the efforts of your kin, through the millenia, by making another child so they can do the same. It’s a fancy egotistical view of biological instincts, but okay. We get what we get.
Here’s the merit point in my book: I don’t completely disagree with the idea that hopefully a lifetime means SOMETHING. We’re all here, hoping there’s meaning to it. If that something of meaning is sending your genome through time-space, into the future…. Okay, fine. It works for some people and I can honor that.
And I’ll admit, this next point has some degree of theoretical merit for me, too.
This Confucian view also says… To be a complete human, you need to be a parent to understand your time as a child and their time as a parent.
Li says:
Another often neglected implication of having children is that, without raising children of one’s own, one cannot fully appreciate the efforts of one’s parents in raising their child.
So, it’s not JUST about dispersing DNA. It’s also about better understanding what the parenting experience was like, from the other set of shoes.
I can’t dispute that. I felt like I got a taste of that through the disabled care of Archie, and it did change my brain in some ways about my assessments of my mother’s mothering. Let alone having a real human child. I’m sure that could be a catalyst to a deeper connection with your own progenitors, and yourself, and yourSelf.
But, still, there must be reasonable expectations.
Like, how are we supposed to support, revere, honor, and mourn you fully if we have our own children?
At a certain point, aren’t we being asked to give more than we have?
Bringing us to our next con-Filial argument against, really, several of the philosophies we discussed.
PRACTICAL CONSIDERATIONS ON THE REALITY OF THE THING
Look, all of this is nice. Developing ourselves through enduring our relationships with our god awful parents is a great fucking sentiment. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.
BUT I also think that Li and all the other authors largely came from a perspective that fails to incorporate the truths of family systems that we in this community know too well.
So, as much as I know I enjoyed both English and Bluestein’s viewpoints about friendship, unconditional care, and genuine gratitude… ya know…
There are important counterarguments we have to weigh against everything we’ve heard so far.
And I think we can best do so by examining more of the specifics underlying the East and West perspectives… and comparing them to the cold, sober, light of days being raised by traumatized individuals. Not these benefic botanists that they described.
First up, jumping off that discussion of how we’re supposed to both have bountiful children AND baby our parents even after death, let’s put our sights on the resource front.
The assumption of resources:
Here’s what Li says, but keep in mind that this fundamentally runs through the 5 Western philosophies, as well:
In Confucian duty ethics, the morality of Jen demands that, within such a fiduciary community, those who have resources, spiritual as well as material, ought to be the benefactors, and those who are in need are entitled to be beneficiaries.
In this view, from the fact that one has received benefits because he was entitled to them it does not follow that he will not be obligated to benefit his former benefactors when later they are in need and he in turn has the resources to be a benefactor.
The Chinese phrase “being rich but failing to be Jen” (wei fu bu ren) condemns those with resources who fail to help those in need. In a sense, possessing resources implies social responsibilities.
(Great, so if we have resources to spare, it’s in our best interest to share them with people who don’t. Even if people provided for us in the past because it was legislated so, that doesn’t relinquish us from the idea of reciprocal duties.
And this was the question danced around by our Western Philosophers, too. Directly or indirectly, they point towards what we have and what we have gained, and ask “what belongs to the people who made you?”
Which… really… makes all of this a discourse of “carelending,” not “caregiving.” Am I right? At what point are we loaning out love, with the express expectation of having it repaid with interest? Carelending. And at what point is that NOT love, at all? But another fucked up version of that “Prudent Investor Thesis.”
….
But I’m a quintuple capricorn, welcome to the limitations of real life. Here’s my even larger saturnian slammer for you.
How many of us feel like we were benefacted resources – time, space, energy, financial, emotional, etc – which have only grown, to the extent that we have excess to spare?
For me. “Depends on the resource, the year, and the day.”
So, if you live in a world like mine (uh, lowerclass and thrashing to get by as a lifelong standard), we often DON’T have much or anything to give. Because we don’t even have the resources we need ourselves. Which can include emotional, intellectual, and spiritual resources, not just material, social, and energetic ones. Each of which, somehow, needs to be getting replenished regularly for us to continue to have anything to be siphoned (*cough* vampired) off.
Here’s an excerpt from a paper we’re going to touch upon later (Relationship between filial obligation and caregiver depression among adult children: A systematic review and meta-analysis) to drive the common sense point home.
“… previous studies demonstrated that adult children with low education level, economic strain and providing care to the disabled parents were more easily entrapped by their caregiver role and had a stronger sense of their role responsibilities; hence, they were more inclined to have depression (Magaa et al., 2020; Miller et al., 2018). Contrarily, adult children with better education (around 60% of the sample with college and bachelor education), financial support and access to caregiving resources, may show partial protection from being deeply caught in their caregiver role (Hedva & Dafna, 2021).”
OF COURSE. If we’re already being regularly railed by life, as many of us seem to experience these years- or lifetime-long bouts of chaos, then contributing consistently to another situation is overloading. If we escape from the madness, temporarily or through lifestyle-climbing, then we aren’t AS fucked by loading another issue on our plate.
But, realistically, DO our filial obligates accurately recognize what resources – or lack there of – we have to spread around? Or how difficult it is for us to restock those figurative and actual shelves once they go bare, especially with added duties piled on top of our usual list?
Or is it assumed that we are endless wells, still to be tapped well after the pool has been drained? And, will they refuse to see that the world we live in these days has smaller and smaller oceans from which to fill our jugs?
Yeah, that’s commentary on the economy, the global isolation we all live in, and climate change, in the face of everything we’re still expected to do for these people, all at once.
More real talk for the childhood-traumatized… What we DO have to give… is that considered good enough for our people? Is that the RIGHT type of sharing?
If we have finances, will they take the finances? If we have extra emotional support to offer, will they accept the connection? If we have time, will they use it constructively? Or will they be expecting what we absolutely do NOT have and rejecting what we can safely give while, likely, engaging us in some sort of runaround?
Right.
I mean, I offer my family alllllll sorts of support from my educational ventures. But do they want to hear about brains or feelings or relationships or behavioral patterns? Things that could enable them to have infinite more resources directly available to them? Nah, they’d just rather that I just give them resources, which are the ones I don’t have to spare; time, energy, physical strength, martyrdom emotions, and money.
SO, in the “we come from difficult people” string of things, I suppose I’m saying that we often haven’t excess resources to spare, or not the ‘right’ excess to spare.
Seems like a pretty large problem for many of the philosophies we heard already. If we bring this conversation to the real world… there are finite resources bottlenecking what we can continually produce and forfeit to others.
And THAT is why a lot of the research I dug into was aimed at preparing society for the aging of Boomers. Because we are – on paper, measurably – not equipped to care for this elder generation of filial expectors, and there may be a governmental need to lend a hand in supporting us, supporting them. This is research that is being funded right now.
Huh.
Kindof seems like a problem; broadly and individually speaking we are not sourced for this task.
But how about we dive into the REAL exploder of this argument for FilOb? It is, perhaps, the thing we’ve all been waiting for since I first skirted over it during Jane English’s Friendship Model.
The assumption of gratitude for this dumpster fire
In all of the arguments presented, but especially the Western five, I believe there’s another underlying assumption in the works that many of us have a silver bullet against.
It’s a little dark, so I’ve held off on this joke about the truth that I live in. But across age and degree of life establishment, as well as life experience and general outlook, we can safely bet I have had different attitudes towards… well… life. And desire to be here. And therefore, my innate thankfulness to my parents for all their carelending.
In his Pro-Filial Obligation argument Li says:)
It is assumed here that a normal person appreciates the fact that he or she is alive, and that his or her parents have endured hardship and sacrifice to bring up their children.
HM.
It is also assumed that given the choice between having been born and not having been born, the normal person would strongly prefer the former, and between being well cared for and not well cared for as a child, the normal person would strongly prefer the former.
HM.
Then this person “owes” his parents a great favor for giving him life and bringing him up, even though he did not request either.
….. HM.
This person is under a moral obligation to reciprocate the favor he has received; when his parents are old and in need of assistance, he is obliged to help.
Although how much help he can offer depends on the circumstances (just as how much benefit his parents were able to offer depended on the circumstances), his moral obligation to help his aged parents is greater than his general duty to help other people in need.
Okay, well, I guess we aren’t “normal.” (Problematic phrase there) Since myself and many of us do not, at least at all times, appreciate being born and still alive very much. In fact, this is the case often enough that we joke about it frequently and speak about it sardonically as a point of connection. So.
In all the Western discussions of favors being given and received, I had this running through my brain. We, in this community, should be grateful for the beneficial actions our parents took to unwisely bring us into a world they, themselves, had very limited and unhealthy understanding of? To make us the cornerstones of the disaster relationships they were in? To pour their various illnesses into and demand that we somehow split the difference to support them?
If you’re like me, you’re very well familiar with the phrase: “I didn’t ask for this. Bringing me here wasn’t FOR me.”
Let’s be real, most of us were tagged in accidentally or as sources of support for our parents. It’s not like our little lives were being deeply considered as they were carefully, consciously formed.
And, in general, ya know… As much as I also believe life is absolutely beautiful and worth living, in part, because of the suffering which makes the unsuffering that much more amazing…
It’s also true that I think deeply and often about the phrase ‘cost of living’ as a hilarious, bottomless, truth.
Hold space for your “and alsos,” life is full of them.
And also, let’s finally discuss the good and the ugly with that lofty Confucian view we touched on last time.
Taking back your locus of control
Per Li, that perspective was:
We cultivate ourselves through reinforcing and expanding our human-related-ness
and our human-relatedness starts with our relationship with our parents.
Therefore, becoming a filial son or daughter is a necessary part of the process of achieving humanity.
Confucians believe, then, filial piety is a requirement for our self-realization.
Since filial piety is a step in our self-realization, being filial is not only for the sake of our parents; it is also for our own sake.
And I asked y’all to give that some thought. Because mine go in two very different directions.
On one hand: being sold a scam?
Other hand: Deal with a pain in the ass? Learn to recognize your own pained-assery. Be a better person.
To me, this feels like it’s saying “in order to complete the human cycle – to finish the game and end the simulation with a winning score – one of the tedious and life-sucking sidequests you must complete is caring for your parents.” Which seems poetically beautiful in a devastating way that makes the emo kid in me nod a little.
OR. It sounds like some viciously contorted argument meant to convince us to devote our lives to the people who “invested” in us, all over again.
“No, no, no. It’s not for us at all, this is all about YOUR self-realization. It helps YOU to help ME.”
Like a snakeoil salesman, we’re being told that WE’RE getting the deal. Maybe this is even an inconvenience to our parents, to allow us to care for them. They’re actually taking a huge loss. I think many of us have been given that impression or those direct words before.
Again, with the egos that might be bordering on Narcdom.
So, I think we can easily make the argument against this idea by saying “no, engaging with abusers is not a test to make you stronger.” Devoting yourself to dangerous people doesn’t make you a better person. Martyring yourself is not the answer for self-realization.
But at the same time…
I do still agree that providing intensive care to another is probably some part of a “complete” human experience, as far as the catalog of highly impactful experiences goes. And I DO see the possibility of real personal change and growth coming from it.
If we are talking about ideal parent-child reciprocal relationships, I sortof figure that being a child in your early days turns into being a parent in your later ones.
And, being a parent in someone else’s early days turns into being a child in your own later ones.
Which, is, sortof beautiful, in as much as it hurts to think about.
But here’s the real benefit of this viewpoint. Because that idyllic one I just described… again… doesn’t really match the CPTSD reality.
SO. The important part, I think? Is the realization of choice and autonomy in both situations. In being a parent – that’s something you need to choose. And in being the caretaker of a parent – that’s also a role you need to consciously decide on.
Using this “Filial Obligation is all for your own benefit” thought kickstarter, to me, re-grants that (perhaps, illusion of) choice. It says “you don’t have to, but this is an experience you might want to engage with.”
From that vantage point, even the worst of the VulNarc parent trap you find yourself in… well… if you’re in the right conditions… anything can be flipped around to become an impactful event, rather than just your family fucking with you.
Right? It, in a way, gives you your power back. No matter what these assholes are doing, the joke is on them because it’s all in your best interest. You might even say that it’s also in their best interest, because you can, theoretically, show them a different side of life via your compassionate response to their nonsense.
And it connects deeply with some “woo” / thought experiment perspectives that can be very helpful.
Hear me out on this, even though it’s going to piss some people off even more.
Speaking of another Eastern Phil. You know that Buddhist belief that you choose your life – down to your parents and every other obstacle you’ll face – before you get here? They believe, in a real way, that everything happens for a reason. For your own realization.
And, as much as you probably want to thrash someone for saying something like that, it’s a very powerful thought train to take a ride on when you have a heavy trauma history. Why? Because it instantly makes you? NOT THE VICTIM.
If you chose this abuse, chaos, instability, and internal torment before you ever got here… well… now what?
I’m not saying you need to agree with this. I AM saying, similarly, the “Taking care of your parents for your own sake” argument follows the same lines for me.
If you CHOOSE it, and you CHOOSE to engage with it in order to change yourself… whether that was before you were ever born or last Tuesday when your mom called… then you are not the victim of the situation. You are in control.
Choosing to be here and to face the challenges you have. -> empowerment
Feeling hopelessly stuck in a situation you can’t change among people who refuse to. -> wishing for the sweet relief of death. And therefore, perhaps, feeling even less driven to repay any gratitudes or debts for that life you’d like to lose.
See what I’m saying?
Believe in any aspect of it on a spiritual plane or not… The idea that “you’re choosing to do this and you’ll most certainly learn from it,” could be a psychological station that helps to balance out the feelings of helplessness and despair.
And, when we’re talking about a Filial Obligation situation, there are times when I think that is approximately the best you can hope for.
So. Agree with Li’s Confucian take or not, consider how useful it is to reverse your thoughts and instead insist: You aren’t a victim. You’ve made the choice to take this on. Which HAS to be preferable to telling yourself you’re imprisoned.
And on that note, I have another two things to relay.
They’re new research excerpts that, in my view, blow this whole argument apart…. And actually bring a science-grounded conclusion to our Filial debate.
Two more articles:
Culture vs. Depression?
My question is… If everyone was so positively affected by the care delivered to their parents, as Confucianism suggests, wouldn’t it follow that the observers of that culture and belief system be better off than the rest of us when it comes to FIlial Obligation?
Given the gift of developing themselves through caring for their parents, obviously, these Easternized folks dodge the filial ailments that most of us think about. Thank goodness when their parents start declining, it’s their chance to ascend to their highest self through mutual relationship with their beloved gene donators.
Right?…. RIGHT??
Yeah, clearly from my enthusiastic setup…. No. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
Let’s touch on this article:
Relationship between filial obligation and caregiver depression among adult children: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Pan, Chen, Yang. 2022.
And tap into the major finding of their study. That study itself? “Systematic review and meta analysis.” AKA numbers crunching, nothing interesting to report.
But from that math, they say:
The fixed-effects model of this meta-analysis achieved a significant effect size of β indicating that; the adult children who had a stronger perception of filial obligation were more depressed across cultures.
Including, that is, Eastern cultures.
So let’s break that down. Even amongst the less individualistic cultures.. Nope, depression is still a side effect of parental responsibility taking.
That said, the STRONGER PERCEPTION of filial obligation is what’s being measured. We don’t know about actual events. We know about what people are reporting from their own experiences.
So in this long discussion of the many perspectives on Filial Obligation duties, ironically or perhaps innately fittingly, it’s the perspective that Filial Obligation is taking place to a significant degree, which is linked to depression.
Even though we may believe that it’s for our own good, including in cultures where this is the common belief surrounding you for your entire life experience, it’s the felt weight of the filial behavior that takes us down.
And… maybe… that’s WHY we can become depressed?
Check out this hypothesis of the authors about the connection between a strong pro-filial culture and the mental ailment of question:
This over-internalisation of filial obligation could be extremely stressful for adult children when overlapping with other competing role responsibilities. Consequently, physical and mental exhaustions often occur with negative emotions such as guilt or worry regarding not serving their parents well, which made them more susceptible to depression (Kalmijn & Suitor, 2020).
First, adult children’s inherent gratitude or debt to parents may adversely influence the relationship under study. Second, caregiver’s appraisal of the nature of filial obligation may
influence the relationship of interest (Wang et al., 2020). Conflicts between cultural expectations and actual filial performance are often present.
Fixed-effects model indicated that a stronger perception of filial obligation was associated with increased depressive symptoms among caregivers across cultures.
So, in fact, it could be self-expectations about rockstaring filial obligation duties that catalyze or at least correlate with depression.
In alllllll of this discussion of lofty Eastern views… it turns out that those views, themselves, might be the factors that overwhelm the brain and… how do you say… suck the soul out of the child.
Isn’t that wild?
So, if this debate ISN’T about whether we’ve been raised to be grateful or not… It doesn’t boil down to whether or not we were raised in collectivist or individualistic societies… It’s not about our vulnarcy western views on our personal rights and parental failures… Or pop cultural expectations of our parents being our friends…
Well, then, might we, instead, ask…
What COULD measurably improve our perception and performance of filial obligation?
I’ve got a little bit of research findings for you on that one, too.
What positively influences Filial Obligation?
Throughout these six philosophies we’ve discussed for weeks now, we’ve talked about SO many factors that might logically and morally indebt us to our parents while maintaining positive regard for them.
Mentally and emotionally, each of these arguments has at least held some water, or else they wouldn’t strike such a cord.
So… what does the research say? What realistically is linked to high level performance of filial obligation duties and presumed mental balance, as inherent mediators of these behaviors?
Here’s your fucking answer. Another paper tells us:
“Empirical literature over the years has identified a plethora of factors that act as possible predisposing factors to filial obligation. The present study focused on parental modeling as a predictor of filial obligation in young adults.
Parental modeling significantly predicted all of the domains of filial obligation i.e. contact and family ritual, conflict avoidance, assistance, self-sufficiency, and personal sharing. It indicates that filial obligation is influenced by parents’ behaviors towards their elders and parents.”
That paper was. Parental Modeling as Predictor of Filial Obligation in Young Adults. Khan, Jamil, Khalid. 2017. I didn’t want to tell you right off the bat, or my excerpt wouldn’t have been an effective reveal. Showmanship.
But the point is:
Modeling is the strongest predictor of Filial Obligation behaviors.
And… again… I would say predictors of “high level” Filial Obligation behaviors. “…contact and family ritual, conflict avoidance, assistance, self-sufficiency, and personal sharing.”
Those aren’t actions that reflect strife, interpersonally or individually. Those are behaviors that require access to a higher perspective or a higher Self. The thing that Eastern cultures are aiming for, as they ascend through their moral responsibilities.
And where does it come from?
Yeah, that’s right. Observation of OUR PARENTS being filial towards others. THAT is the experience that’s most likely to create the lowest levels of suffering and avoidance in OUR later filial obligations.
And I would hypothesize… it might be, furthermore, the attitudes of our parents towards their Filial duties that makes a huge difference.
If, through modeling, we’re taught from a young age that caring for parents is necessary… but it’s a strenuous, overwhelming, frustrating experience for which we can never feel we performed strongly enough…
Don’t you think that predisposes us to having similar feelings and assessments down the road when it’s our turn to lend helping hands?
And THAT to me, is huge. Does THAT explain a lot of our opinions about Filial Obligation?
What was modeled for us in our nuclear families, as our parents narrated or nonverbally described their experiences with their parents?
I don’t know about you guys (ng’d) but, again, for me, the example given was based in intergenerational trauma. Did/do my parents enjoy or respect their parents? Did/do they happily lend them support or reverence? Did/do they speak of them as wells of wisdom and selfless care? And if they ever did… was it based in healthy attachment and realistic thinking?
Hell no.
And, you know what? Point blank: I do regularly think about how my mother hates her mother, as I try to justify the way that I feel about my mom. “Hey, she openly disrespects and despises the person who raised her… so… why ISN’T that allowed one generation later?” It’s shitty to say, but it’s a very real and very grounded thought pattern.
Now let’s take this locomotive all the way home, taking a little sidetrip into the lofty ideals we’ve covered and bringing them right back down to earth again, as we:
WRAP
So at the end of this whole discussion, which has traversed the realms of the soul, the cultural collective, and all the way down to the earthly discussion of material investment and repaid debts…
Demonstration of mutual care without expectation, even if it’s not being directly received? Inspires people to do the same unto you.
Being kind encourages people to be kind.
And in this way, that whole “Golden Rule” debacle described in the first Filial Obligation episode is finally resolved.
It’s NOT that we need to be kind to our parents in order for our children to be karmically inspired to show us care. It IS that we demonstrate HOW TO CARE for our parents TO OUR CHILDREN, and they, then, are more likely to return the favor down the line. Having been properly educated on the subject.
It seems to me that our strain about Filial obligation IS largely linked to the simple, fundamental, condition of: 1) the quality of parental relationships that have come before us. 2) the quality of the relationship that we, ourselves, experience with our parents. 3) the capacities and willingness of our parents to provide care to the generations both before and after them. And 4) just straight up resources. What we realistically have to offer, versus what’s needed and for how long.
And those are the facts of the matter.
If you’re facing Filial Obligation, presently or imminently, attempting to settle your thoughts and feelings about the situation. To find some solid ground to stand on, rather than whipping your head back and forth trying to track the conflicting philosophies that might fill your psyche… The questions to ask may simply be:
How do we feel about the way they treated others?
How do we feel about the way they treated us?
What did THEY have to give, honestly?
What do WE have to give, realistically?
For how long can we sustain that giving without needing to alter our support systems?
Bonus question for the VulNarc considerations: What relational skills have they developed over time? For better or for worse?
And that’s… about it…
Those seem to be the big, conflicting, thoughts, feelings, and life factors that turn our brains and lives upside down. What can we do with that information?
- Settle our oppositional thoughts about the care that our parents provided to other people and to ourselves. We will probably never have ONE solid set of feelings or perceptions for these people, but can we start to work through our conflicting wounds and gratitudes NOW, so we aren’t trying to raw dog it either during our filial duties or posthumously? Can we create a mental program that includes semi-cohesive “AND ALSO” thoughts about these people, which starts to encapsulate simplified mental and emotional schema for our decades of memories?
- We can also: Get real about what resources our parents had and what we have, ourselves. You know what, a lot of these people WERE awful caregivers; they’re mentally ill, they’re selfish, they’re ignorant, and they’re immature. But did they have the internet to privately and affordably work on fixing any of those things? DID they have the material resources that were required to provide an easy life for the household?
- And what about us? What DO we have to give, on material, emotional, and energetic fronts? For how long? At what point will our needs be going unmet? What systems need to be bolstered or raised from the ground to support those needs, in a regenerative fashion that can sustain our efforts acutely and over time?
- Lastly… if it’s PERCEPTION of Filial Obligation activities that commonsensedly correlates to how internally disturbed we are by it… Where is this person’s social skillset? Is it pro- or anti- collaboration? Are they capable of clear and neutral communication? Needs requests? Vulnerability? Relational reparation? And if not, is there a chance that they could be? If you engage lightly and safely, do you ever see evidence of new thoughts or self-reflection? If not, are you supportively prepared to stave off the abuses of the proudly traumatized individual that made you?
THESE seem to be the big Qs for each of us to tackle. Whether we’re facing Filial obligation in the future, or staring down the barrel, presently. Mental and emotional strain around the issue? Might be semi-calmable and cohesion-able by working deeply with these points of focus… you know, a lot moreso than thrashing against their traditional expectations or debating what exactly they gave you unconditionally versus legally.
So maybe it’s fair to say…
We can come from highly honorable families with big expectations for us.
They can act out of insanity in procreating and further inconvenience themselves with massive investments that they pour into sustaining our early lives.
They can have traditional beliefs about the roles that parents and “good children” play, considering it their “right” to receive what they don’t dish out.
They can grant us debatable “favors” that often fall into “mandatory, unrequested, basic care” which we carry mixed gratitude for.
They can even demonstrate ultimate benefit to us, in (somehow) influencing us to become whoever we’ve ultimately turned out to be.
And, variably, they can plant seeds that will become trees only in our lifetimes, for our absolute good.
But even still…
It isn’t fully persuasive to our psyches that we should play Filial Obligate…. unless we’ve seen signs that they’re kind, compassionate, caregiving people, who did the best they could with their given resources, themselves.
And keep in mind, that kindness and compassion, according to the research, doesn’t even have to be TOWARDS US. Our minds seem to be far less conflicted on the subject if we simply see them demonstrate the same care to their parents as they expect from us.
And with ALLLLLL of this being fucking said, my guys (ng’d)….
I hate to whittle this down to such a simple conclusion…
But, perhaps, “the Golden Rule” really is where this enormous issue starts and stops.
DO they treat others the way they want to be treated? Or DO they VulNarc their entitled little brains through life, only DEMANDING from others, while being unable to give back without further personal expectation?
All of this research and discussion comes down to “is their money where their mouth is?” And, if not, it seems to be a standard of the human condition that our brain will struggle to rectify the two realities. “This person demands stringless help, but this person gives no puppetless help. Not even to OTHER people.”
And perhaps THAT’S so impactful, because it can be followed up with the thought, “So, therefore, I know it’s not about ME. They aren’t cold and uncaring because there’s something wrong with ME. The evidence shows that they don’t give a shit about ANYONE.”
So… at that point… Fuckem?
I don’t know. Again, no definite conclusions can be drawn. But it sure seems like a lack of prosocial behavior across the board would indicate that this will be a very heavy Filial load. That perception will more predictably create cognitive strain, such as depression. Being depressed and locked in engagement with an abuser could most certainly explain the tendency for suicidality.
And keeping that fact in mind just might make a decision like going No Contact or abstaining from direct Filial Obligation a lot easier. Or not. I don’t know your situation.
But I’d like to know your thoughts. And how deeply this issue miiiiight all be related to the presence of parental Vulnerable Narcissism in your world.
Maybe those are the folks who are least likely to receive the Filial Obligation they feel entitled to deserve. Maybe we don’t need to feel so conflicted about it.
Because, alternatively, based on everything we’ve covered… I think we can safely guess that they’re gonna be the folks we’ll suffer most significantly from, as we force ourselves to override our own logic and play their martyring mind reading games until the tournament is finally over.
On one hand it might help to frame things as “this experience is for our own self-ascension.” And let the self-growth that can come through continual obstacles with inflatedly entitled beings carry us through. Like the Confucians say.
…
Or not. That, alternatively, might put too much pressure on our brains, as we disappoint ourselves by reacting to the continual stream of bullshit coming our way, and fall into depression.
I can only connect the research dots and make guesses. I want to know what you assess and what you’ve seen. If you’re reflecting and working with the show, I’d love to know where these philosophical narrative examinations meet the parental pavement.
Share your hell yeahs or get fuckeds in the comments. Especially around the suggestion that “this is all for our own good,’ even as a thought tool.
And til we get out our belts and hammers next time…
Hail yourSelf. And your potential self-development through dealing with difficult people?
Hail your freedom of choice, after wisely weighing your options, assessing your soul’s potential for growth from this experience, and preparing for the future… which is coming for the entire planet.
And hail the Golden Rule, not the passive intergenerational one. I’ll stokedly take care of my dog like the magical bean he is with only expectation of fat-headed snuggles in return, and plan ahead for dealing with my own inevitable health failure provisions, like I’ve always had to, anyways.
And much future empowerment to y’all, as well.
Cheers, Fuckers.